Flamboro Deals Imminent?

John, I wish I could.

This will cost Ontario jobs, not create. Substainial wealth/invstment/jobs that have been created will vanish. A Casino cannot do what SARP has created quite simply.

I was just stating the numbers, not that I agree with it.

Jack you seem to be up on economics, could you explain to me how subsidizing US casino owners with 40-50%(maybe even more, its all still a secret) of revenue from casinos to send to the USA is better for Ontario tax payers than having 20% sustain 50,000 Ontario jobs.

John, for clarification,I touched upon the cost of racing models, not the reinventing itself which ultimatley has to happen and has been discussed many times.

The simple economics of operating a track do not work with the current cost models. There simply isn't enough LIVE revenue to make it work. All source handle although helpful, doesn't generate much 3-4 %. In my opinion, it most likely costs tracks from $15 K a day at the grassroots level to 50 K a day at signature levels to operate. With live handle sitting between 5-25 K a day, simple math doesn't work. You haven't touched the financing of the properties or projects yet.

This is why your seeing the WEG changes, with more to come. SARP hid these and quite frankly the track owners took the loss in order to keep the Slot cash.

I don't think the Lakeshore guys have not done the math either. They are wasting their time.

Jack you say the industry needs to reinvent itself but any new ideas are immediately shot down by the government,examples are instant racing,new types of wagering, less takeout from the mutels. even if we could get bingo halls at 47% with OLG picking up the expenses that would be of great assistance but that will only happen if Tannenbaum buys up racetracks next.

Further to Dorothy Leaman's post, I received my OSS sustaining notices in the mail yesterday. I returned them to the ORC along with the following note: "Inasmuch as the administrators of the OSS are unable to provide details (dates, purses, tracks etc) at this time, I cannot justify spending $1700 to sustain my three horses. Pay now, maybe race later just does not cut it. It saddens me to watch the best Sires Stakes program in North America be decimated by our ill-informed politicians and their flunkies. My mares will be bred in Ohio this year.

I think the small owners who are considering sustaining their two & three year old horses to the Sire Stakes should have some information as to tracks,& schedules before submitting payment. It seems you have to have blind faith in the ORC to do the right thing by the horseman and that hasn't been the case over the last year.
Hopefully, they will step up and support the horsemen.

This is the type of stuff you cant make up. It appears that we are somewhere behind New York , Pensylvania and Ohio and somewhere in between New Jersey Indiana, Delaware and Kentucky. New Jersey has gone from 14 standardbred stallions two years ago to 2 commercial stallions in 2012 and the number one breeding farm in New Jersey Peretti farms has moved all of their mares and stallions to a leased farm in Pennsylvania . I dont believe that Mr Snobelen and his transitional panel have shown the expertise or knowledge to know what the top 5 jurisdictions look like or where Ontario will be after this destruction. If anyone has access to these wise men ask them one question. "How much will owners and trainers pay for yearlings this year in November when the only thing they will know is that there will be money for one more year.?" I believe in five years going down the present path we will have race tracks just like New Jersey and 90 percent of the horses will be produced in the four jurisdictions Pa, NY,Ky and Ohio. So we get all the casinos and gambling products but none of the agricultural or rural benefits. What makes this whole mess absurd is that the top three jurisdictions all copied some form of the Sarp model. I believe that Premeir Wynne should give up the Agricultural ministry before she is attributed with the destruction of the Ontario breeding industry. Despite Mr Snobelens absurd comment that we owe a debt of gratitude to Minister Mcmeekin I believe that Mcmeekin, Duncan , Mcguinty and Godfrey need to share equally in the demise of the Standardbred breeding industry in Ontario. There is no question we will all owe a debt of something but I think it wil be a debt owed to banks for farm equipment and trucks not gratitude. Mr Snobelen the longer you drag out this consultation the more your name will be attached to this debacle. I cant believe the consulting fees are large enough to allow your name to be added to list of people who led to the demise of this industry. Or are they?

Amongst the top 5 in North America, what a joke, before this fiasco WE WERE NUMER ONE,

Randy,

These agreements are strictly leasing agreements for the gaming space within each facility. In this case, the OLG will be paying each provider somewhere between $40-$60 a square foot from what I am told and as it's a triple net lease, they will assume some of the other costs associated with the operation of the facility. Far less then the old 10 % from SARP, hence why I am sure Flamboro and Georgian are having a tough time making the numbers work being tracks that were more recently purchased. I believe GCGC has already wrote off most of Flamboro according to their books accordingly.

This lease will be assignable as part of RFP process, so it's not out of the questions a casino company other than GCGC (the only racetrack operator in Cda that is capable)could come in and run the slots in their properties with no share of the revenue.

The city gets nothing from this deal. The horseman get nothing from this deal.

The tracks will have a hard time maintaining operations with this money, it's either accept the deal or they close.They have finanacial obligations, profit or non profit. Go ask Western, Georgian, Weg, Hanover, Flamboro who have built and expanded the properties on a revenue stream that was to be in place in some cases to 2025, your see some of the pain already, with much more to come.

They have a gun to their head. jobs will be lost, the industry has to invent itself right quick with lowest costs models avialble or it's completely over.

Good comments Peggy. I hope you have put these words in an e-mail to as many mpps as you can. As for who will it help - Paul Godfrey of course and bingo hall owners like Larry Tannenbaum. I am also disappointedin the lack of action of our Ombudsman.

It's hard to get excited because the track owners are doing deals with OLG, how does the Horse Industry fit in? Track owners will collect rent from slots. Why aren't they negotiating a percentage for the Horse Ind?

The only reason Godfrey wants these agreements signed sealed and delivered is so he can tell the Government it is to late to cancel his plans and go back to the program the horsemen and ownership used to have. This is an absolute joke. Than again wasn't Godfrey the guy in charge when the dome was built with a budget of around three hundred million? Didn't the final costs come in at close to a billion? Didn't he work on the sale of it a few years back for twenty-five million? Enough said!

I am going to invoke the fith amendment ..Like most of our so called leaders I wish to remain silent..After 11 months and thousands of comments, where do we go from here? 31 march 2013 ...it's over...

We've all heard of the "Silent Majority" and the "Vocal Minority" but what seems to be unfolding here in Ontario is the "Silent Enemy" who are the racetrack owners.All kinds of 'deals' being made but to what end for horseracing?? Have we heard any owners yelling and screaming to protect racing?..... No. I'm fearful their pockets are being lined again and most don't care whether or not they have live racing.

can someone explain to me what these agreements look like? Who's getting what in these agreements at the 11 racetracks? The track opperators, municipalities, and the crooked liberals? Is that how it works? And if so let me get this straight, the horsemen of Ontario let the gov to put slot machines on their grounds and kill their bet then 15 years later or so the government turns around and kicks the horsemen out of their own tracks. Is there possibly a more ridiculous scenario. I'm gonna puke if i hear anyone else pretty up this horrible situtaion as well. "top five in North america" isn't that a great sign for the sport. What a joke

Nice, going from arguably the top one to top 5 , within 11 months, puts us between Michigan and Quebec. Is that what they want ? Turning an industry with 2 billion $ churn into a losing proposition for all participants. AND THEY SEEM TO BE PROUD OF THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENT ! Pay the tracks and horseman their due, or move the slots.

That's one heck of a prediction "among the top five racing jurisdictions in North America". That's so reassuring to fall from the best in the world to top five on the continent. Top five would insinuate 5th - best case scenario. I can hardly wait to see their "racing schedule that makes sense". I realize that everybody is working within the framework that is currently available, but we must continue to apply pressure to our MPPs and Kathleen Wynne to postpone the cancellation of SARP until a proper asessment of the program can be made.

I understand that Mr. Snobelen and the panel are doing the best that they can but it is a big drop from number 1 to number 5. I would still like someone to give me one logical reason why the government is letting this happen. It is not to help Ontario in any way shape or form. Who will it help? Maybe the opposition parties should ask that question in parliament. They all know that this is wrong so why don't the NDP stand up with the PCs and call an election. Can't anyone do the right thing anymore? What ever happened to "Government by the people for the people?" Today it seems to be" Government by the Politicans for the Politicans personal pocket books".