Should trainers and drivers get the same cut of the purse?

The trainer get money from the owner to do his job not the driver. The 5% is just a little extra for a good performance so it's fair that trainer and driver get the same %

Ever been to a sale and watched as a horse with a '51 record and a half million dollars goes to a killer? Maybe some of the money or at least a part of the registration fees should go to support the rescue operations that provide homes for some of our champions

Wow, if you are a trainer and aren't making enough on your daily rate and everything else that you charge for shipping, vet bills and medication bought for the whole barn including horses you own that is billed to one owner then you are not a very good business man. What do you think keeps owners out of this business?? UNREASONABLE TRAINING BILLS... there is nothing wrong with charging a fair price for an honest days work but when there are guys out there that are doing nothing but gouge owners until they eventually get out of the business that is wrong.. there are few trainers that are getting rich on their 5%, so save the crying wolf on the daily rates, at $60 a day plus, plus, plus, plus you should be talking to your banker or bookkeeper because someone is not taking care of your money!!!!

Hey... don't forget the Breeder.... Without him or her there is no driver or trainer!!

Lets try an open market system. Owners and trainers can negotiate a percentage at the time of hiring. Likewise, the percentage would be negotiated with the driver at the time of hiring. I think it would be interesting to see the scramble before a big race to get the top drivers.

Great question Dean.

The way I see it a driver should have his 5% cut to 2%. They are over rated and lets face it without a trainer providing them with a drive they wouldn't have any work would they.

I think they should take that 3% from the driver and give it to the breeder of the horse, for as long as the horse races regardless of ownership on the animal. As long as the breeder is still breeding horses he should receive a continual incentive to keep breeding horses.

Without the breeder this industry is doomed. They are the most important part of the racing equation and the least looked after financially.

The standardbred publication industry, as a whole seem to glorify the drivers and give the trainers second billing while a breeder well he's lucky to get a mention in a write up ever.

When you take a look at drivers racing on the B circuit here in Ontario, there are a lot of drivers making in excess of a 100,000 bucks in a season. The top three or four drivers at Flamboro, London, Georgian, Elora all making a more than decent living. Henry, Richardson, Forward, Mackenzie, Coulter, McClure Clements, Wall, Battin, heck even Doug McNair an 18 year old kid is going to clear over 50 grand his first year of driving. What's their over head? Colours and a whip? Vehicle to get to the track?

Take a look at how much the breeder spends. Stud fees, housing a mare and colt for 2 years plus, vet bills , mortgage, hydro, taxes, insurance, stake nomination fees, registration, the list just keeps growing but yet he gets zilch, not-ta, nothing but an average price for his colt.

My goodness the breeder deserves more than 3%. I take it back. Split 5% between the driver and the trainer and give the breeder 5% of the purse from every race the animal he bred races in for life. That makes more sense to me. Without the breeder there wouldn't be horse racing period. You tell me who deserves what?

Trainers should definitely get more then the drivers. Especially when some of the drivers refuse to do their jobs. They get behind a horse and look at the tote board to see how they should drive....I mean come on!!! Sit behind any horse and regardless of the odds or the trainer, do your job for 1:50-2:04....how ever long the race is....Because unless all drivers are willing to do that, they deserve far less of the 10%.

Regarding jockeys getting 10% - from that they pay their agent a percentage and another percentage to their valets , so they end up with about 5%.

I think a driver should be given a flat fee of say $25 per drive plus 3% of the purse..The trainer given 6% and the Groom be given 1%.

Fairness in our sport is a laughable reality.
Our own horsemens association doesn't represent its members equally,how can we expect it between drivers and trainers.
Everyone knows that a trainers earnings are contained in their 5%.The training fees strictly cover operating expenses ranging from staff to transportation.If a trainer has a horse on a deal in which he gets a larger purse share,he is making concessions elsewhere.That deal works for owners on cheaper horses but only works for trainers if the horse is racing for enough purse.
Drivers are to be respected for the job they do,but not at the expense of the trainers.The 5% split was brought in at a time when there was loyalty between drivers and trainers .
watching races nightly becomes more frustrating when you see these drivers giving each other holes so now your horse instead of sitting 3rd is 4th and either goes first up or is 9th turning for home and every trainer in the business has stood in the paddock knowing the owner was going to call saying,what the hell was that!!

To all of you who have quite a lot to say about "trainers bills" have obviously never been in the position. A trainer charges enough to cover a horse's basic needs, and you have NO clue what a bag of grain, bale of hay or the cost of bedding. Nevermind the cost of fuel to ship these animals from racetrack to racetrack. Or the stall rent, or the mortgages on farms, or the power bills to light up a whole barn, or the water bills, which keep rising, nevermind that most trainers are still charging the same as they were 10 years ago, just to keep owners in the barn. Nevermind paying help, who also have to live eat and breathe. So to sit there and chirp up and say that a trainer doesn't deserve 5% is unbelievable

I think 5 % for drivers is fair but it could be on a graduated scale depending on the purse.
I.e. $6,000 purse drivers receive as an example $10 / drive plus 5% if they are in the money. While drivers that go for lets say $100,000 get 3% the remaining 2% being redistributed to the lower purse races to pay for the $10.
That would encourage new drivers to enter racing and support the drivers on smaller tracks.
This would still encourage good drivers while allowing drivers on small tracks to make a living.
If the trainer is also the driver this subsidy would be cancelled if the horse is in the money.

Just a thought.

Bernd Kretzschmar

I rather be a jockey for the runnners they get 10% and go for more money.

Yes, it's a team effort.

I find it almost amusing that one can say that a trainer gets paid enough through their daily rates. People saying that have never tried to run a public stable over a long period of time and make it work financially. Others have talked about the risks the drivers take and accidents that could or unfortunately do happen. To those I would say they have never trained many horses because just as many (if not more) serious accidents happen while jogging or training on a daily basis and if you don't think so go to a training facility and watch for a week. Also, come around any trainer at yearling breaking time and tell me it isn't a risky business for the trainer. Yes, a good catch driver has great skill (just watch John Campbell) and deserve to be paid a fair wage. But I do not think they should be paid the same percentage as the trainer because in the training business you are often times only as good as your last good horse. A driver's next horse is only a race away while a trainer's next horse may be months if not longer away. Besides, go to Woodbine or Mohawk and walk past where the drivers park their cars. Doesn't look like they are hurting much to me.

I think the split is about right. Driver's have a dangerous job and you have to be on your toes all the time. Trainers get a daily fee to look after your horse as it is. That is part of their income. My trainer is very fair so I can't complain, but also some of the fees the big time trainers charge are ridiculous!

The trainer should get no percentage of the purse money, only the driver. How is it fair that the trainer accumulates 5 percent of a owner's horse winnings when the horse is doing well, then the horse has a bad month and the trainer demand full payment. Ludicrous.

When the drivers drive cheap horses (more dangerous) for lesser purses they should get more than 5% but when they drive for purses of $20,0000.00 or more (better horses) an argument could be made that 5% is a lot. As for the trainers the same argument could be made but replacing the danger element by difficulty. In any case the trainers have a choice and a bargaining power when they accept a horse in training.

The truth of the matter--if we are going to be honest--is that most trainers use catch drivers because THEY CAN'T DRIVE! Driving is also much more dangerous. I don't remember the last time I heard of a life threatening injury incurred during a training mile. There have been grooms killed in the line of their everyday work, most recently a groom at The Meadows who was kicked in the chest. How many grooms STILL GET NO PERCENTAGE???? Beissnger never paid percentages to grooms---figured that was their job. I recall a nasty scene between Joe O'Brien and Lami just before Jodevin retired. Where's the justice????

I WAS ONE OF THE DRIVERS TO PUSH FOR THE 5%, DRIVERS & EXDRIVERS WAKE UP WITH A SORE BODY EVERY MORNING THEIR HEALTH AND LIFE ARE ON THE LINE WITH EVERY DRIVE, THEY DESERVE EVERY CENT THEY GET! IF A TRAINER WANTS MORE THAN 5%, IT CAN BE NEGOTIATED BEFORE THE HORSE COMES IN THE BARN. THE SYSTEM IS FINE THE WAY IT IS IN MY OPINION

Maybe it's just because we're used to it, but as an owner I think it's about right the way it is, although I think there could be some adjustment to the trainer's share for stake payments paid by the owner.

Any trainer that I have had was also a driver and if he felt someone else could do a better job then that was fine with me . When it came down to stakes races and we had a hired pilot , I always made sure my main man was looked after . I always appreciated the job well done by driver but never lost sight of who did the work 24/7 .

we all know that trainer does work all week on his horses to get them in the best of shape so that the driver has something to work with but think really quick there is one winner in each race so there is one driver making good money but every trainer gets paid every month. In thoroughbred racing, the jockeys get their flat rate. I used to own a couple of cheap runners and the jockeys where getting 65.00$ for every mount and the outriders were getting paid too. Think of all the risk a driver takes, who is going to pay the driver when he`s in the hospital or crippled - just use common sense.

There is 5 money earners but a lot of drivers get no money every night, who's going to drive the losers to make full fields for the fortunate driver that has enough luck to drive for a big stable.

PS: I just think you need winners and losers in every race - that's called racing no matter what sport or races !!!!!!!!!

Even a bad driver can drive a good horse to a win, it's the trainer who conditions the horse, some of these horses I have seen go down during their training trips, to me this one is a no brainer.

It's not hard to make a case for either; however, what has been mentioned--and often overlooked--is the names and faces not on the program. Those are the ones that will make or break the horse nine times out of ten. So, to the owners that don't understand how it "really" works behind the scenes the message is, don't forget about your horse's groom. He/she is the one that spends the time--or not if you're cheap--with your horse. Doesn't need to be anything special, just a little something to say that you care and appreciate their efforts. Hint, decent cup of coffee and doughnuts on a Saturday for the barn is much appreciated!

trainers should get more thats a no brainer .

The trainer gets paid to do his job through his daily rate. He should not get any percentage. The driver earnes his commission through his drive. Currently 5% seems to be about fair maybe a percent or two low.

The trainer is the more important part of the formula by far. All the top drivers drive for the more successful trainers as a means to increase their earning potential. That being said, the forgotten argument here is that the trainer receives day money on top of the percentage of the horses earnings thereby swaying the earning potential in his/her favor. If a driver only drove exclusively for a single trainer, the money earnings per individual would greatly swing in the trainer's favor. The system is not flawed. Top catch drivers earn the money they do by competing in more races than an individual trainer so the earnings argument is invalid. Remember that what these guys do is highly specialized and far more dangerous, they deserve the 5% as much as the trainer does.

How about the driver puts his life on the line each race... trainers also get paid for training it all week its not like they do it for free ... leave it the way it is!

If 10% is the limit is to be the combined take out for the trainer and the driver, the driver, if he or she is a catch driver, should be paid a flat fee of $20 to $25 per drive and 2.5% to 3% of the purse earned. 7% to 7.5% of the purse earned should go to the trainer. If the trainer is fair minded, he or she should share at 1% of the purse earned with his assistant or the groom for the horse.

Some of the top trainers today invoice their owners for 7% or 8% of purses earned against which they credit any amounts paid directly from the race venues. Of that 7% or 8% half goes to their assistant trainers and the other half goes to the grooms of the horses that earn the purses. That is very fair.

As an owner, I believe a more fair formula would be based on the net earnings of the horse. I believe that the trainer should be paid a carried interest in the annual net profits (annual purses earned less expenses charged and paid by the owner less any commissions held out less staking and starting fees, etc.) of a horse equal to 20%. That is how it works in my business. It is a tested formula and it puts the incentive in the right place - ie. the profits of the horse. Owners should require trainers to return any commissions received if at the end of the year a horse is not profitable.

In our stable, we pay to the trainer the lower of a 10% commission on the sale of a horse or 10% of the cumulative net profits of the horse he or she trained so long as the horse was profitable on a cumulative basis while in that trainer's care.

As an owner I hold my trainer responsible for the horse. A bad trainer can harm the horse...a bad drive is forgotten the next start and the driver can be easily replaced. No question the trainer deserves a few more percentage points than the driver. A good driver can drive many good horses a year. Most trainers have just a few real money earners. Its all about accountability.

Even if we unamiously agree that trainers should get more,how would we convince drivers to take less? I think 6 % (trainers) and 4% (drivers) is the right answer.

The trainer spends more time working with the horse, but is already compensated for that work/time through the daily training rates. The driver has responsibility for the horse during the race and is also accepting a certain degree of risk. I feel that the current splits are a fair arrangement. If an individual trainer or driver felt that their experience or talent was worth a larger percentage, then I think they are within their rights to charge an additional fee, it would be their responsibility to negotiate and collect such fees. Perhaps it would even make more sense than the current system?

There is no question that each has a huge amount of responsibility, however it's also clear that the trainer has much more. The trainer has to deal with the horse the next day and the owner if it doesn't go so good. It's a job that takes a tole on each of us but an equal share is fair in my opinion as each has a skill and a job to do!