Mr. Parke if you want to try to sell me on the idea that there is lots of young trainers and drivers in the game, yes i fully agree Harness racing seems to run in families and gets passed down from one generation to the next like the Zerons, the McNairs, the jamiesons and so on and so on but you will not sell me on the idea that there is all kinds of young people running around the racetrack, programs in hand playing the ponies. I have been at to many racetracks over the years to buy into this. The number of young people there as compared to 30 and 40 years ago is a joke. If there is so many young people supporting the game, why did racing in quebec and alberta all but disappear. Why is it in the maritimes that tracks for the most part wager from $3 thousand to 10 thousand per card. I don't have the exact number but why is it that the overall racing handle is only about 50% of what it was 30 years ago. The reason is pretty simple, the race game has lost pretty much an entire generation of gamblers and there well on the way to losing another entire generation of gamblers unless they get there act together in a hurry.

A quick comment from New York, if I may. Our farm is about seventy minutes from the Meadowlands and two hours and a bit from Tioga, tracks owned and operated by Mr Gural. There was nothing at Tioga , nothing, now there is a vibrant economic entity. The Meadowlands was close to being done;now it is in the private hands of people who love the sport and I know two of them have major investments in their breeding operations. Mr Gural has a steel trap business sense seen in his real estate business and I see little sense in not supporting his every move in the New York metro area at least!You guys do the slots distribution way better, than , at the very least, New York for instance.That won't change...it's New York and there is potentially way too much money and too many fingers in the pie. We need a Jeff Gural;we are Americans, God bless us and help us.
I am very happy that Mr Gural and his ideas have
been so well received and I think regarded in Canada and WEG. I for one agree with heats on Hambletonian Day ,totally. But even if I didn't for all that Jeff Gural has done and has pledged to do, I would defer to him.I know the difficulties of small breeding operation; I can't imagine the challenges that Jeff endures.

Great idea.The betting public loves heat racing.I think John Carter has some great points but i think the reason horse racing lost alot of its fan base over the last 20 years is mainly because of one reason 'INCONSISTENT TRAINERS'and i think it is still the biggest problem today.

Seems to me when I go to the track I am amazed at how many 20 something people are there and how many younger trainers drivers and owners there are.

Drugs in horse racing is a terrible tragedy and the penalties are to light I agree.

Takeouts high yes, do they need to be? Will Mr. Gural lower them at his track?

This is about heat racing,the real debate should be if it is safe for horses in this generation. Didn't some of these races go away from heat racing due to the toll on the horse, even heat racing is great.

Funny how most of these articles always lead to drugs, cheating and high takeouts, do you think we found the a couple of the commom denominators to lead us down the path to a start of fixing what is broken.

Greg Parke

Not a big fan of heat racing anymore. The horses are going way faster now & it has to be tougher on them physically.

Mr. Carter is right on the money with his post. The other thing that needs to happen is horsepeople need to wake up!! Any positive test needs to be dealt with quickly and the penalties need to be more severe than they are now!! Integritty is a big issue and it is at a level compared to wrestling, with this is right or wrong it is what the general public thinks.Trainers and drivers need to be held accountable for a horses performance and bad efforts or drives that are anything less than a full effort to win a race need to be penalized. Also matters of inconsistent efforts need to be dealt with!!

C.Renon

John Carter that is one solution which I believe you have put forth many times. My opinion is that, even if your plan was implemented, only a few old time bettors would notice. How can the industry attract patrons to HORSE RACING as a FORM of entertainment plus gambling (which it has always been)? There is no doubt in my mind that horse racing along with other previously popular sports (boxing for example) is dying mainly because it has diasppeared from the public eye. The question is how to bring it back to life.

I may have a skewed memory but I believe I recall attending Greenwood years ago and seeing the dining room filled with folks dressed up, having a nice dinner, making a few bets and spending the evening enjoying the races. Many families (including mine) had a tradition of "going to the races" as an outing for special occasions. My own father would spend an evening at the track watching the action and only making a couple of well thought out bets but also watching the races he didn't bet. Why did people lose interest in this type of fun? Hard core gamblers alone will not keep racing going. There has to be a fan base or all is lost.

This has been an interesting rhetoric don't you think?

Perhaps someone who can actually implement change will read it.

To Liz Therrien, thank you for asking me if i have any ideas because i certainly do but first i would like to point out that i am not negative but i look at the racing industry and what is happening to it from a very realistic point of view. The race game is slowly but surely dying because they refuse to compete for there customer base with other forms of gambling. With the excessive track take outs that all tracks charge they have chased away many long time horse players and the race game has zero chance for competing with the next generation of gamblers because of it.

Today's gamblers are much more educated when it comes to take out or house holds then my generation was. They will not play a game that is as unfair as the races and they know that to have any chance of winning long term is next to impossible. Jeff Gural himself said on here several years ago that if the race game did not start to compete with other forms of gambling by reducing take out to 8 to 10% in all pools that they were going to die a certain and sure death, that no other outcome was possible. Well guess what he was right then and that remains true today.

I don't suggest that the race game doesn't have expenses that other forms of gambling don't have but guess what that is not my problem nor is it the problem of the next generation of gamblers. It is up to the race game to figure it out, wether that means a portion of the slot revenue being directed towards takeout or what ever they have to do to compete. The handle will go up, how much no one has that answer for sure but one thing i do know is on the current course the race game is on in 20 to 40 years the majority of tracks will have disappeared.

All you have to do is go to the track to a simulcast area and look atr the people around you for the most part if you are in your fifties you are one of the young ones. So in 20 or 30 years as we all start to die off or get to old to go to the races who is going to be supporting the game. They have already lost one generation of gamblers, now they are all set to lose the battle for yet another generation of gamblers. At some point the race game has to understand they can come up with any ideas they want but if they aren't somewhat competitive with other forms of gambling at the end of the day it will make no difference. It is time for the race game to start competing, it's that plain and simple.

Mr.Parke no where did i say i am against heat racing, i don't care it makes no difference to me but what i am against is the industry coming up with one band aid solution after another and people acting like these solutions are going to reverse the downward trend in the sport. My point is, heat racing in the hambo wether you are for it or against it will make no long tern difference as far as attracting new gamblers and that's the bottom line. When is this industry going to get serious and get there priorities straight by asking themselves this question, what do we have to do to get gamblers back at the track. All i see is one band aid solution after another.

Sorry to disappoint you about my posting but i may have said this will be my last comment in a particular thread but no where did i say i wouldn't post again. I could be wrong but the last time i checked i thought this was an open board that welcomes different points of view. I will not pat an industry on the back who has seen there customer base disappear for over 20 years and they have yet to do a single thing to fight for there fair share of the market. There only solution seems to be begging for handouts and continue to do nothing to stand on there own two feet.

So John Carter do you have some brilliant non band aid ideas for getting people interested in gambling on HORSES and HORSE RACING as opposed to other forms of gambling? If people bet on poker it's because they like playing cards. Logically if they bet on horses it's because they like to see horses race. Therefore the races need to be entertaining. Heat racing is a start which hopefully could be followed up by other ideas for making the races more appealing. Obvioulsy you still have some interest in racing and if you could lose the negative attitude maybe you could come up with some.

How can you not like the idea of heat racing in the Hambo. There are so many great ones to remember. Not just the Hambo either, a lot of great heat racing through the years.

To Mr. Inglis, maybe Mr. Carter has more trouble betting heat races and that is why he doesn't think it will work and I agree, if your out your out. Also didn't you state a while ago Mr. Carter that "this was my last comment" on one of your comments awhile ago?

Greg Parke

To James Inglis, i am truly sorry if my being around here offends you. I guess i could be like the thousands upon thousands of others who have walked away from the race game, not say a word and not bother pointing out to the industry why they have lost players, many for good with no chance of getting them back. Do you think those numbers are exaggerated, will if you do, just check the wager from the 70's and 80's and compare it to today's wager. It backs up what i say.

All this industry does is come up with band aid solutions and as a result there fan base is slowly but surely disappearing, furthermore these band aid solutions have zero chance of attracting the next generation of gamblers. There is all kinds of people who tell this industry what they want to hear. I won't waste my time or there time telling them what they want to hear, i would much rather tell them what they need to hear. If you or the industry or for that matter standardbred canada does not like that, so be it. I guess you folks want everybody to be like the silent majority just walk away from the game and say nothing, just let the game dye the slow death it is surely dying.

To Liz Therrien, i agree people like Jeff Gural should be given credit when they do something positive but the comments need to be more realistic about what heat racing can do for the sport. The truth is this sport has way bigger issues then wether or not the hambo will race in heats. The hambo racing in heats will not fill the grandstands with new fans nor will it attract serious long term gamblers which this industry so badly needs. When Jeff Gural or anyone else comes up with real solutions that has a chance of attracting new and old gamblers back to the track i will be the 1st one to step up to the plate and give them credit where credit is due but i will not give them credit for band aid solutions. This industry needs more people telling them what they need to hear not want they want to hear.

Well, John Carter I'm not naive enough to believe that only that one thing will bring fans back to the track but it's a step in the right direction and I think the people who are making an effort should be acknowledged. You may have moved on to other forms of gambling but I love this sport for the entertainment value along with the betting and I don't want to see it die before I do. Anything that will make it more exciting is a good thing.
Because it's not an instant gratification type of gambling like slot machines you need fans first and hopefully they will become bettors.

To John Carter,

You have not left the racing game as you are constantly on here with your negativity of the sport. Now taking a shot at Liz. If your leaving the game would you hurry up and do it and leave us in peace!

Another GREAT move by Gural - I'm also impressed with the innovative idea to race the Hambletonian Maturity at 1 1/8 miles with a potentially bigger than traditional field.

To the general public, the same one mile dashes with fields of 10 or less likely start to look like the same thing over and over. Innovation and risk-taking are likely critical measures necessary to expand the existing fan base and bring former customers back. The 15% guaranteed Pick 4 is also a nice hook - it's one of the best bets in the game. As for publicity, I have written two blog posts on another website trumpeting The Big M's resurgence and have spoken about it on my radio podcast show. Every little bit helps.

To Liz Therrien, do you really believe that the hambo returning to the heat format and Jeff Gural getting the word out is going to make any difference in getting back people like me who have walked away from the race game for other forms of gambling or that heat racing is going to excite the next generation of gamblers in any way, shape or form. This move will make no difference to anyone who is not already a supporter of harness racing.

Terrific idea! The question is - how to reach the "outsiders" who don't read "insider" news. I hope that the Gural team has some innovative ideas for spreading the news to fans/bettors and potential fans/bettors who don't access the industry websites. All will be in vain if it doesn't bring the current fans back to the track and generate new ones.

I applaud the return to the heat format. This move, similar to Carl Jamieson's decision to race and breed Up The Credit, will serve to please the fans of harness racing. As a fan and participant I support any move that can maintain and seek to deepen our fan base.

Considering they made the race a glorified horse race going to eliminations the week before, this is a welcome change. It makes the race really something special.

Adding the Hambletonian Maturity as a 16 horse race at 1 1/8 miles for 4yos is also good. One thing we need to learn in North America is we can not keep our racing homogenized. I am sure this race will be bet heavily abroad.

Is it better heats the same day or multiple qualifications?.

An example: to become eligible to race in the Prix D'Amérique, a horse has to qualify by totel money earn in his life, points and money in the B big race like, Belgique,etc.. etc.
Is it why the Prix d'Amérique is the biggest race in the world? Total bets across the world ?