Moderator Kathy Parker, editor of The Horsemen and Fair World, led off the conversation about keeping customers in mind for Tuesday's fifth panel -- Think Customers First -- by offering the floor to owner, fan, and member of the SWAP research committee John Marshall

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"We took a lot of data at Standardbred Canada and read it, digested it, and tried to determine who the customer is now and who the customer could be," began Marshall, in regards to the work of his SWAP committee. "I found out that first of all, there is lots of data. What yielded this is that we have reached the prefect storm -- we are losing the existing customers and not attracting new customers. It's not so much what we found in the research, it's what we didn't find.

"We saw a lot about attracting the 18-35 demographic," he explained, "but there was no suggestion as to how. There were volumes written about the lapsed player, but no real answer as to why. But it was left at that -- there were no specifics as to where that huge body of players went.

"What I found as positive, though, was looking around -- there is a lot of interest out there about making a knowledge-based wager," added Marshall. "And there is no demographic that doesn't like to do it! We've got that style of product here. There should be opportunity.

"But who is the customer? After weeks of reading, I don't think we came up with that. I don't think we really understand where the customer went. I don't think as a group, industry, company, we can really understand who our customer is. It's not what we found, but what we didn't find -- which is what to do about this. Yet it would indicate there is the opportunity there thanks to that knowledge-based wager appeal.

Owner and fan Harvey Weiner, who began playing the ponies in his university days, recalled that during the Clinton days in the US, he simplified everything by saying: it's the economy, stupid. "We can simplify everything that we are seeing by saying: it's the handle, stupid!"

"We're still stuck in a time warp, going back to the 60s," he went on. "The product that we're offering it and the way we're offering it has not changed substantially. The focus of the last session - the younger generation -- is where I think we should be focusing our attention. It would seem to me that generating increased handle through the existing clientele, or expecting somehow that we will be able to re-attract people who have left, would be a waste of time and energy. There is a new generation out there, who are obviously looking at things in very different ways from you and I, and I believe there is a way that we can put together an integrated strategy to attract those young people to our tracks."

He suggested taking a media presentation to youth in the community, to clubs and schools, to get some interest rolling, taking more of an involvement in the community, and creating new track events, among other things. "I know a number of these things have been tried here and there, but I'm looking at a comprehensive strategy that would encompass all of these things.

"I think all of us are guilty -- that as long as purses are there, as long as things seem to be OK, we will not be moved to act," Weiner stressed, "but that would be the most unfortunate thing that we could do. I think that the time is now to make investments into this particular industry -- taking into account that it will not be easy. It seems to me that is the only route. It seems otherwise the future is a rather bleak one."

Gambling professionally for almost four years, James Erickson admitted he liked horseplaying to begin with because you use your head. "If you're smart enough, you win -- much like poker, much like sports betting. If you want to attract customers into the horse racing game, provide them with the knowledge to make a wager.

"One problem I see with harness racing is that there is nothing out there as far as information is concerned." As far as books and learning tools go, he suggests, there is nothing out there offering new customers the opportunity to make a knowledge-based wager. Even thoroughbred racing offers these tools -- but not harness racing.

"There are so many other avenues for the customer to go to, there is just nothing to attract them to it."

What are the other differences or similarities, asked Parker, between harness racing and thoroughbred racing? What about pool size?

"Well, pool size is one big thing," suggested Erickson. "There are a lot more opportunities to make a large wager to make a lot of money. essentially in harness racing, you have to bet at WEG or at the Meadowlands."

What about field size, prodded Parker.

"Thoroughbred races have a problem as far as field sizes go too," Erickson replied. "I don't think it's as much of a problem in comparison to thoroughbreds."

And what about the medication issue?

"I think where harness racing suffers is that when horses are so consistent, it's clear when something isn't right," he said. "Thoroughbreds don't race as often and they race different distances, they're not racing the same horses all the time -- if the horse does something screwy it's not as obvious. The general public might not pick up on that. In harness racing, it's so blatant. The same thing is happening in thoroughbred racing but it's just not as evident."

"I'm not sure that thoroughbred racing is doing much better than harness racing," agreed Weiner. "They are facing the same problem of attracting the younger customer."

"One of the great things I think this industry has is passion. You wouldn't be in this room if you didn't have passion -- because you're not getting rich! But it is in a unified, collective agreement to harness that passion about the sport and find what products will sell, find ways to attract that new customer."

As a customer, asked Parker, what would you like to see delivered as a player?

"Harness racing used to be a live product," added Erickson. "It's now kind of turned into a television product, When you are packaging the product, you have to think of it as a television product. It's still the same one camera, big oval -- if you look at horse racing in Dubai, for example, it's a lot more dynamic, a lot more visually interesting. You get a lot more out of it. It looks a lot more interesting."

"Well, one of the attractions of thoroughbred racing that we can learn from," suggested Weiner, "is racing a different distances. The other is packaging the racing with other forms of entertainment so these become events, and not just opportuinities to wager. Everything else we've talked about have revolved around getting more bang for your wagering buck.

"I can't think of an industry, quite frankly, that invests less money it itself than the industry we are all intersted in helping to build. If we don't leave this meeting without a commitment to do more than talk about it, then I think we've missed the boat. It is absolutely essential for our survival. I can talk about bigger pools, bigger fields, and all that, but all that is only possible through increased handle and less reliance on slots."

It was the Standardbred Canada Chair, Jackson Wittup, who threw out the final question. Since we have these horseplayers available to us, he said, let's talk about the whipping issue for a minute. How do you as a horseplayer, he asked, feel about the whipping?

"It should be two hands, says Erickson. "Visually it (one-handed whipping) looks bad!"

Dave Vicay, from the crowd, suggested that whipping to him is irrelevant. It's a non-issue right now, he says, becasue the bigger issue is getting people to the track in the first place. You can't worry about what they think when they get to the races -- you need to *get* them there in the first place.

"I agree with that point," interjected owner and fan Kevin Koury, also from the crowd. "I think a lot of people are focusing on customers that aren't there. Let's be honest -- if they changed the whipping rule, would it bring new people? No."

"A lot of it is just for show, as far as I'm concerned," responded Erickson. "If you have a consistent rule, it's easy to explain why you didn't hammer on the horse."