I think that changing the racing distance to 7/8ths of a mile is a very bad idea. I have been betting on Woodbine/Mohawk harness racing for 20 years now and frequent the races at least 2-3 nights a week. Since Woodbine came up with idea, I have not attended a Monday card just for this reason. Handicapping a mile race is tough enough...now everything you've ever learned about handicapping does not apply as much to 7/8th racing. I understand that the WEG is trying new ideas to improve racing flow, attendance, handle, etc. but 7/8ths racing is not the solution. Stiffer penalties for those who cheat, better drug testing, lower the pari-mutuel takeout, and have guaranteed pick 3 and pick 4 pools (just like the Meadowlands) would definitely help these issues. I truly hope there are some WEG executives reading these comments because if they continue to make changes without listening to us (the bettors of this sport) I will find another way to spend my gambling dollars and eventually lose interest in harness racing altogether. The next time WEG intends to implement racing changes, perhaps they should hold a discussion forum and take ideas from its customer base to see what we want and provide it...this is what successful companies do in order to keep its customers happy and coming back.

Not impressed with the 7/8 mile racing at Woodbine. If the horse is a maiden and wins they still are without a lifetime mark. Woodbine mile racing is what it is and I prefer it to this new experiment.

Well JR, raising any purse would do that, or would it. The purses are higher in this era than they have been and the product on the track does not meet expectations. I believe this why we are having all these comments posted. The racing is actually worse than it was three years ago.

Dubblr, Luc is not right. Changing to the mile track will not change a thing. The 7/8 mile races are basically mile races, start finish in the same place. My opinion is that it has not changed the racing flow at all so why would the mile track? The only good thing about the mile track is that the fans would be closer, if there were any left.

There are a lot of cynical comments on this subject and also some very good ideas. What will it take to change the mind set so we can move this industry forward. It has been stagnant for over ten years. The mind set change has to come from the top down, show a little accountability and integrity. Enforce the rules of racing, most races look like an outtake from the movie "easy money". Have the people who hired the people to enforce the rules of racing do their jobs, make these people enforce them, and so on.

You all need to get away from the negative hype. We fans and bettors want to see that the bad apples are being weeded out, let us know when it happens. Start showing a little integrity and we will show you the money again.

Promote standardbred racing better. The best way to promote it is to show you all care about the bettor and fans, make it more exciting, have race secretaries change conditions so the races are tighter. Watch the racing from the states, these guys are racing and seem proud to do it. Things will only change if these things happen. There are more people over sixty than under in the stands, it will only get worse unless all of you look in the mirror and decide to make it better. My guess is at this rate we will have nothing to talk about in ten years as it will all be gone. Do you know where a person can bet on mouse racing?

If they bumped purses up for 7/8 th racing drivers would be for it 100%. Anything to help the sport of harness racing is worth trying.

luc is right. put the game on the thoroughbred track then you will see some racing.

i work with a 2 yr old that won the 7/8 event he has no mark for winning but now has to race nw of 2 im my mind he is still a maiden

Reading through these a couple things ring clear. MacDonald says change the style of racing. Well Mr. MacDonald, Step up and lead the way. Luc Ouellette says let us on the mile and will show you racing. People are comparing Meadowlands flow. Mr. Ouellette came from the Meadowlands, maybe he can help Mr. MacDonald change the style of racing. Seven eights is not much different from a mile. Spend the money and change the poles, make the first turn closer, more like the Meadowlands and give these two the chance to show us and maybe it will catch on with the other drivers. Or just have the judges enforce the rules of racing, whatever, nobody seems to be taking this as seriously as they should. Changing the poles will help enormously and is cheap, easy and fast, more bang for the buck as they say.

If the intent of 7/8's racing is to increase the flow of the race, thus increasing the action, then the best way to accomplish this is to offer purse money to the leader at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4's. Let's face it, an owner who know's his horse is over matched is actually doing the industry a service when they show up to race. If he can some how lead at the 1/4 pole and at least pay his expenses, then that's a good thing. Some will argue that this will result in the favorite getting scorched by a horse who has no shot, BUT, that can easily be solved by the driver of the favorite as he handicaps the race and drives accordingly.

If this was adopted, all drivers would make the necessary adjustments in their strategy to compensate for the greater amount of flow and greater amount of front end speed.

Make the change before I get interested in spending my handicapping money elsewhere.

Hollywood Park raced harness back some 30 years ago..and ALL of their hight priced claiming races went at 1 1/8 or 1 1/16 of a mile..You want flow??? you want form??? card the extra distance and then you'll see wich drivers drive with their Brains and which ones drive with their..well.you know....

in some places, the driver setting the slow fractions are fined for setting fractions not to the class of horse, and the REST of the field are also fined for not contesting the pace so...why aren't the judges doing their jobs and making these boys drive to the ability of the horses?

I HAVE BEEN BETTING STANDARD BREDS FOR 45 YEARS: THIS TEST IS CRAZY. THE PROBLEM IS THE JUDGES YES THE JUDGES. GET RID OF THE OLD MIND SET. GET NEW JUDGES AND TELL THEM TO ORDER THE DRIVERS TO MOVE THEIR HORSES EARLY OR SUFFER BIG FINES. GIVE THE PUBLIC A RUN FOR THEIR MONEY. IF YOU DON'T THE BETTING POOLS WILL GET SMALLER AND SMALLER.

I WILL NOT BET A 7/8TH RACE SO YOU LOST MY REVENUE ON THOSES RACES.I RATHER HAVE THE HORSE THAT I BET TAKE A SHOT AT THE LEAD AND TRYING TO WIN EVEN IF HE FINNISHS LAST, THEN LAY BACK FOR 3/4 OF THE RACE AND TRIES TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD IN THE STRETCH AND FINNISHS OUT OF THE MONEY. START HITTING THE DRIVERS WITH BIG FINES AND DON'T LET UP. THEY WILL SOON WAKE UP. THEY WILL CONFORM OR MOVE TO ANOTHER TRACK, WOODBINE HAS BIG PURSES, THEY WON'T FIND THAT KIND OF MONEY AT OTHER TRACKS.

Is the reason for the change in the length of the race to up the handle? if that is the case then it is working. But the cause of the decline in the Harness sport has little to do with the length of the race or for that matter the size of handle. The lifeblood of this sport has always been the OWNERS not the racetracks nor the wagering and especially not the Casinos.

Wayne F. Hayes

The distance is not the problem.Woodbine is simply populated with a high number of very,for a lack of a better term, conservative drivers.

If you really want to improve the flow stop rewarding drivers,trainers and owners for mediocre results.

Why in the world is a horse paid for a fifth place finish in a ten horse field.If it was up to me payouts would go to those horses finishing in the top three positions.

I know this idea would cause a lot of resistance so lets say that payouts would be to the top four positions in fields of 8-10 horses,top three positions in fields of 6-7 and top two in fields of 5 or less.

This would not only cause drivers to be more aggressive and thus create more flow but also force trainers to properly classify their horses and create more competitive racing.

Additionally owners will be forced to demand accountability from their trainers and drivers.

I doubt that the change to 7/8ths will solve the problem. Two or three persons have expressed the opinion that if the judges were more effective in calling EVERY infraction in regards to giving up holes, slow quarters, changing course in the stretch, starting violations etc. It would only take one or two weeks of consistent enforcement to improve the situation and improve the outlook of many fans.

Every night you can pick out 20 or more violations as mentioned above not including the "conference calls" (talking to each other) that the drivers have going on right up to near the starting point.

The negative comments here clearly show that the harness racing industry attracts the most stubborn, unimaginative, fearful, complaining nay-sayers in Canada. Its no wonder to me why the public has voted with their feet and stayed away from harness racing: the horses are nice but the people are old, do-nothing farts.

To fix harness racing you have to get rid of people who can't see the fun in trying new things.

I love 7/8's mile racing. The Handles up 250 grand the first night. Tony MacDonald has got the right attitude a race is a race. Drive on my friend.

A couple of drivers like Brennan, Sears and Tetrick would shake the drivers colony up a bit...then you would see some flow!!!!!!!!!!

Shortening the distance only improved the already existing track bias to front end horses and speed.8 out of 10 winners were sitting in the top 4 and 2 winners went wire to wire. So I did not see any change from 1 mile racing results. If anything they should try 1 1/8 mile racing in order to get the backfield more involved in the race, which is the current problem. Presently if you get away 7th, 8th or more you have little chance to make up ground no matter how fast you come back your last 1/2.

I do all my handicapping work based on traditional one mile races. WEG's move to 7/8 mile Mondays left me no choice but to drop Woodbine from the tracks I bet. Does WEG think 7/8 mile races will attract new customers? It might, but I would think not. One thing I do know is it will make them lose old customers...well at least one for sure.

which racing do you like better weg or meadowlands? tough question,at the meadowlands judges enforce rules to make good racing i.e.giving holes , horses on the gate ,and snap common sense decisions.what do we do ,change the distance and hope for good racing.

I also agree with Luc Ouellette. The racing on the mile track would be similar to the Meadowlands...and you could actually watch a race from the grandstand and maybe see the race!!!

why not the next 4 mondays after this 7/8ths experiment try reducing the takeout by 10 percent. then the woodbine crowd will find out that the product is not the problem.

I agree with D.J. ... "I THINK IF THE JUDGES INFORCED THE RULES OF RACING (LIKE NOT GIVING HOLES AND SLOW HALVES) THIS WOULD NOT BE NECCESARY"

No matter the distance Woodbine will always be boring and single file due to the track configuration.The turns at Woodbine are to tight to allow any kind of forward motion two and three wide,the banks that were put in place also gives a huge advantage to the horses on the rail coming off the turns.Mohawk is bettable and more exciting because the last turn is not banked and is a true mile track turn which allows people to make a move or come three wide or not lose momentum when your off the rail.If WEG and the bettors and horsemen/women want to see real racing and bet on exciting racing, very simple let the s-breds race on the mile. It's there , it's not being used in the winter and it's the true test for horses, drivers and bettors

I WILL NOT WAGER ON MONDAY NIGHTS AT WOODBINE UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. MR. OUELLETTE IS CORRECT IN SAYING THE BETTOR HAS NO SHOT.I DUMP 1000-1500 A WEEK INTO THIS PRODUCT.I'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR 30 YEARS AND WILL NOT BET ANYTHING THAT IS NOT AT THE STANDARD MILE DISTANCE.I DO LOVE EXTREME HORSEPOWER AT GEORGIAN DOWNS BUT ONLY TO WATCH.I THINK I MAYBE WAGERED 50 BUCKS ON THAT EVENT THIS YEAR.

Changing the race distance to 7/8's of a mile changed nothing, all it did was show once again that weg simply does not get it and sadly probably never will. They have to do something with the mile track that the t'breds race on.

Even though they cut an 1/8 of a mile off the distance going into the first turn it appears to me that it is still much further into the first turn then it is at the m'lands. Now because there track is a 7/8's of mile they are unable to move the start point any closer to the first turn because then a mile race would finish entering the first turn which you can't have, so because of the 7/8's of a mile track configuration there is not much the can do about it. A track that is 7/8's of a mile is a disaster.

I don't think the races were any better, but I don't think they were any worse, either. I think the increase in handle may be because it was a good looking card to bet. However, I stuck to my guns and did not bet. Two questions,... why did the starting gate pick the horses up only 1/8 from the start instead of the head of the stretch like a mile track? And, shouldn't Woodbine look at getting another starting gate? I noticed every race that started in front of the grandstand that the outside of the wings bend back a considerable amount as the starting gate leaves the field. This must be the case in every race no matter what the distance. No wonder the very inside and outside post positions don't get away very good, they can't afford to have their noses right on the gate!

put us on the big track make things alot better...woodbine caters too much to the thorobreds why wont all of us horsemen and drivers stick together and get us on the big track if we all say we want the 1 mile thorobred track we will get it... i dont get it that 7/8 is stupid!

harness racing has a standard of ONE MILE

all the important records and comparisons and handicapping are all based on that long tradition of one mile racing

this is a bad move by woodbine

Well I guess I will start wagering at Woodbine in January again, maybe.

i seem to hear the same complaints everywhere no one wants any kind of change well if the public wants change then so be it the public pays for your livelyhood
try racing where purses are $2000.woodbine may not seem so bad and for that matter northlands may not be so bad either

7/8mile race will kill the racehorse,speed kill and there not so many horse any way they should go longer not shorter

THE 7/8 RACING NARROWED DOWN THE THE AMOUNT OF HORSES TO BET ON... THE 8,9,10 POSITIONS DID NOT WIN ANY RACES ... THE SEVEN HORSE WON ONCE, THE SIX HORSE WON ONCE. THE OTHER TEN RACES WERE WON BY THE INSIDE HORSES... THERES A TIP FOR NEXT WEEK IF YOU LIKE AN OUTSIDE HORSE THINK TWICE...IF YOU OWN AN OUTSIDE HORSE YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT SCRATCHING THEM...I THINK IF THE JUDGES INFORCED THE RULES OF RACING (LIKE NOT GIVING HOLES AND SLOW HALVES) THIS WOULD NOT BE NECCESARY.

More fines for making holes.

I think it's ridiculous to race race 7/8th's of a mile. For years and years horses
have been racing the distance of 1 mile. What is Woodbine going to do next? They might as well race 1/4 of a mile with quarter horses.

That's my opinion. I won't wager on a 7/8th's of a mile race.

None of the increased handle came from me.
I know it was only one week, but I don't think this changes anything. The flow and speed favoring issues are still there. It just gives an even greater advantage to inside posts over outside.
It doesn't alter the fact that Woodbine is a 7/8 track with 1/2-mile turns.

I am a fan and a handicapper. I am adamantly opposed to the switch to 7/8 of a mile. I've spent 40 years as a "student" of harness racing. The 7/8 mile race renders all numbers and records as meaningless and destroys the tradition of the STANDARD mile. This experiment should be discontinued immediately. Any change in handle is more likely related to weather, program quality, and whether the Leafs are playing than anything to do with 7/8 mile racing. In my view, WEG is wasting four Monday nights because people like me will not wager a nickel on a 7/8 mile race.

Very interesting comments,but I definately agree with Mr.Ouellette regarding racing on the outer track ,as it is now almost useless to attend the races at Woodbine because you need a telescope to see the finish line or any part of the race for that matter.