Judges: Keep Holes Closed

I have not heard one comment on trotters keeping the hole full .Anyone worth thier salt knows if you push too hard to kep the hole full you will push the horse off stide .Will the public be happy with that end result .I think not.

This is a message to SC. I watched the races from Woodbine on Dec. 29, race #3, at home and they had an inquiry on the winner Stonebridge Leader violating the pylon rule. They showed the tape at least 10 times and it was obvious he was inside 3 consecutive pylons near the quarter pole. The judges ruled inside of 1 pylon and left him up as the winner. This made my ticket worthless. I immediately called the ORC , who switched me to the ORC office at Woodbine, where I got a recording that the thoroughbred office is closed. I re-dialed and explained, and went through I don't know how many people befors one finally took my complaint and gave me a report #. I phoned back Friday and was told to call the next week. I phoned Monday and was told to give them another week to look at it. I forgot the next week and phoned the following Tuesday, where after being on hold for 10 minutes, I was hooked up with an investigator. Trouble is, they had hooked me up with the Metro Toronto Crime Stoppers! He didn't have a clue what I was talking about and had no report # that matched mine, obviously. I have given up phoning the ORC. I just watched the replay again on the HPI replays and it just makes me madder. How can 3 people make such a mistake? I was wondering if you could put the tape on your site, like the London fiasco or the Mike Wassilyn inquiry, and have people comment on it. I'm sorry but I do not have an E-mail address, and I do not want to leave my name as I have family that are involved in the racing industry. I don't need a response from you, I'll just have to wait and see. At least take the time to view this tape. Being a bettor, things like this bug me a 1000 times more than integrity issues that I keep hearing. Thanks for your time.

WHY WOULD THE JUDGES OR ANYONE THINK THAT DRIVERS ARE TALKING ABOUT THE RACE ON THE TRACK WHEN THEY DRAW THE RACE 3 DAYS IN ADVANCE ...WHEN SOME OF THE DRIVERS ACTUALLY DRIVE IN TOGETHER ...DONT YOU THINK IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE COLUSION THEY WOULD DO IT IN THE AFTERNOON OR IN THE PADDOCK WHILE THEY ARE WATCHING T.V TOGETHER ...

WHY NOT WORRY ABOUT REAL PROBLEMS ..HOW ABOUT TREATING EVERYONE THE SAME ...HOW ABOUT THINKING THERE IS NO COLUSION AND JUST BE HAPPY...YEARS AGO DRIVERS AND TRAINERS WERE FRIENDS UNTILL THIER HORSES WENT ON THE TRACK ..THEN IT WAS ALL BUSINESS..

HOW ABOUT TREATING EVERYONE WITH RESPECT INSTEAD OF THINKING YOUR THE "KING"..REMEMBER THIS EVERYONE HAS SKELETONS IN THIER CLOSET ..

Don't insult the drivers.
Drivers are honest people and do whatever is necessary in order to win that race. That is what the betting public wants and needs drivers to do. In driving, why not open a hole, especially if it brings the opportunity to get out and around the outside horse? Sometimes, a horse is just sitting on the outside not advancing. What is wrong with a driver giving him the hole, then getting his horse out and around him? I don't know any driver who doesn't always drive to win, with the best driving strategy for the horse in mind. I don't want a driver on any of my horses who doesn't want to win. Kudos to current pool of driving talent, and keep up the good work, people! You are all doing a fantastic job!

Racing at Yonkers is a joke because of how fast the first turn comes up. How many races do you see where they are racing 1-8 in PP order after the turn with every horse tucked into a hole? LOTS! The 7 and 8 horses might as well be 5,000 to 1 instead of the 40 or 50 to 1 they usually are. How can this be called a "sport" when 2 of the participants have virtually ZERO chance every race?

There should be no excuses in not filling a hole in the 1st quarter.

If a horse cannot fill a hole in the 1st quarter, (where 100% of his stamina is still available) then I think that horse must not be allowed to race at WEG, the premier track.

Furthermore any driver using that excuse (ie. that the horse is incapable of filling the hole) also must not be allowed to race at WEG.

All horses have at least one "brush" in them, hence not filling the hole (in the 1st Q) must carry severe penalties, for both horse and driver, unless "trouble" with the horse is clearly demonstrated.

should judges have to tell drivers the rules i mean really give your head a shake many of these guys have been in the game for many years. maybe the trainer or owner should mention that to the driver after all it is their horse but as always no one will step up to the plate.

In my opinion, the rotating panel of judges at WEG are far too inconsistent.
When's the last time they fined a guy for making a hole for another driver?
Or for slow quarters?
Or failing to maintain a proper pace?
The ORC needs to rattle the chains in the stands.
Many of their crews are doing a very poor job at calling the little things.

With regards to Yonkers and other Jurisdictions fineing Drivers for talking in the post parade. Just try and explain the rational for that to a new "customer". An old "customer" will tell you the reason for it(so the drivers dont cook up something regarding the race). Well first lets pass on the presumed innocent before guilty aspects(supposedly) of our society, and assume some sort of "ccoking" was taking place. The reality is if such a thing was happening it can be done pre post parade very easily. Now for an incident as a driver I was nvolved in. In the post parade I noticed the horse in front of me had a broken hopple hanger and I informed the driver. Silly me here I though I could be saving a catastrophe and ended up facing a $100. fine. I explained the situation after to the presiding Judges who stated "well you can always appeal". Oh yes but its a catch 22, it costs time and money to appeal and if you win you could become a Judges Target. Try speaking to a driver off the record on this point and the majority say just pay it's worse if you don't! Can you imagine in any other vocation(if harness racing is a vocation) where people were fined for speaking to each other whether to say hello or in my case possibl to save lives!!

yes , the same old story--how can a bettor accuractly handicap a race when holes magically appear--there are rules for such infractions beleive it or not--they are to be enforced and not just a minimum fine--fines plus days are the answer-and some of the excuses given by drivers--oh he could not keep up--well then the judges should simply say--either qualify the horse for performance or take a penalty--a progressive penalty--then you might see changes made--or course you might want to change judges--if that would help any--right?

I have two comments.

I am reminded of an old story about a famous New England horseman who raced in New York, and on the Grand Circuit.

One night, possibly at Yonkers, this driver's horse was parked.

His groom was in the paddock and kept saying: "Put him in the hole, put him in the hole. Why didn't the driver put him in the hole?" Someone beside him said "Because the hole is goin' too fast!!"

There are a multitude of reasons why the hole is not filled in a given race. Some of the reasons are valid, some are not.

Also, sometimes a driver will let a horse in to get him out of the way - it has nothing to do with a buddy system [which I acknowledge does seem to exist sometimes].

Sometimes it is just good racing strategy to have someone in front you, and passable, rather than parked outside you.

WHEN DID WOODBINE PUT IN THERE PASSING LANE.

I agree that drivers should be fined for not filling up the holes because they are constantly letting there buddies in unless you're an outsider then you stayed parked, but what really irratates horse players is every single night at the head of the stretch the lead horse on the rail leaves the rail letting the pocket horse come up the inside without doing any racing on his own. These drivers should be fined heavily by the judges for this infraction. This is an ongoing problem along with the buddy buddy systems letting their friends in. There should never be a hole up the rail unless woodbine decides to put a passing lane up the inside half way down the stretch. It is time the judges dealt with this matter. AND great for YONKERS for dealing with the hole issue. Lets start nailing some drivers. They are supposed to be professionals start driving like professionals.

This really is a no brainer.WEG wonders why handles keep going down well insist on honest competetive racing instead of the buddy system that exists now.Funny how the holes dissapear when the Meadowlands boys arrive.Always nice to see someone give the 60-1 longshot a hole and then get trapped in.

There's nothing wrong with letting a horse in a hole if the pace is fast and a driver is struggling to keep up. It's much better stratagy to let the horse in and save your horse for later in the mile when it counts. If you leave him out there most times he's still sitting there when you want out and then you're SOL. There is a lot more to driving stratagy than the betters know, but as usual they want to believe everyone's cheating!

The judges at WEG or just the judges period, can't do there job they need someone to do it for them..Never in all my life have I seen so-called professionals miss every call accept when a driver actually is trying and then they jump all over the driver and fine and or suspend him for nothing more then trying to win. Granted there are times when drivers get a little too aggressive and thats when it is ok to come down on them. The judges at our racetracks today have no idea what a violation is and as long as they are in charge every nite all we'll have left is ourselves betting on ourselves

The drivers here need to be given the same message. I've heard too many people stateing that post position dosen't mean that much...I've been on about this for longer than I care to remember... they don't mean much when the inside postions keep giving holes to the outside horses. The ORC officials are entirely too blame for this, it's their job to see to it that holes are not needlessly given away and they have not been doing their jobs. Has anyone noticed that when an outsider tries leaving from an outside post the holes all close up?? Why not the same for everyone... fairplay for everyone... fairplay to the fans that wager.

WEG IS IN CANADA&YONKER IS IN THE USA WE LIVE BY CANADIAN RULE NOT US RULE,SO IT CA RULE NOT USA. THANK YOU (A HORSE MAN)

Can the Yonkers' judges please hold the exact same meeting with WEG drivers.

Suggest one meeting a week, until the message is absorbed.

Subsequently, driver violations should be met with a minimum 3 month suspension.

After 2 or 3 drivers get such a suspension, WEG racing will have more flow than Meadowlands ever did.

keep the hole filled should be applied at woodbine as well.

They should also take a look at the whipping there as well.

It gets frustrating trying to come up with an answer to these "violations", especially when these questions come from new fans.

All Ontario tracks should follow Yonkers' lead. An attempt at positive communication and mutual respect between Judges, management and the horseman should lead to a better product on the track with fewer suspensions and fines.